Hello everyone! This is Jack from Golden Dice Podcast! Today I wanted to post a summarized transcript of the interview Scott did with Danny Schaefer, lead designer of Star Wars: Unlimited. You can watch the complete interview over on our YouTube channel. Hope you enjoy!
Scott: Welcome everyone, we are here from GenCon! With me I have Danny Schaefer. How has the Con been for you?
Danny: It has been amazing to run into so many Unlimited players. Really cool to talk to people about their deck, see all the Large Events being full along with all the draft and sealed pods constantly firing off!
Danny Schaefer talks with Scott from GDP at Gen Con
Scott: So getting into the questions: What is your favorite part of designing Star Wars: Unlimited?
Danny: We really have such a great team and cover so much ground and bring new perspectives. Like MJ (Cutts) and Tyler (Parrott) are off-the-wall, bringing wacky designs and deep-cut Star Wars themes, and then you have Ryan (Serrano) with the rules knowledge and brings the technical side to it all.
Our group dynamic is awesome. Every new set is awesome with having a blank canvas to create and show off new stuff. Especially the next few sets of 3, 4 and 5 really bring something new and different to the table!
Scott: Yeah we saw some of that with set 2 introducing the Smuggle mechanic, and it changed how we approach deck building and resourcing. Going into future sets, what are some things you kept in mind as you add new elements without reinventing the wheel with each set?
Danny: There are some things that are natural evolutions, like token units coming. Many people guessed we would since we have other tokens in this game, and it felt like a natural fit going into a Clone Wars themed set with droids and clones.
From there we started to think of new keywords such as Coordinate with Republic for having units in play. It makes you think about sequencing slightly differently from wanting to do things earlier before your units are killed.
Scott: How did the design team dial it into 3 units for Coordinate? Not two or four? 3 units is a lot on the board in the current Set 2 meta.
Danny: As we tested both ends, there are a lot of new tools to keep these tokens on the board. We didn’t want it always on but if you committed to it, we wanted you to be able to turn it on when you needed it. The other end of it was the new keyword Exploit. I love that keyword and make so many decks based around it. You really need to think about deck building with it.
We haven’t seen many new cards but there are ways to turn it on easier by committing to it. Then you also need to decide when are you trying to trigger the Exploit tag, and maybe it is early tempo, or maybe you are trying to destroy 2 or 3 Battle Droids to play something early for free. For example, the Battle Droid Escort that was spoiled, there are ways to set up Exploit 2 easily.
Scott: You mentioned earlier about token units being expected. Did you know they were coming from the beginning?
Danny: Yes! Exactly! We always knew they were coming, but Set 1 we wanted to keep it simple and focus on the basics of the game. But we knew within a year, year and a half, that we wanted to bring in those tokens. It just ended up perfectly as we knew once Clone Wars was locked in, it was a natural fit.
Scott: When you are creating a new set, how do you work around introducing new leaders? We see a lot of Set 1 leaders doing well this weekend. How do you manage not wanting to power creep but still introducing new leaders into the meta?
Danny: That's one of the trickiest things for sure. We all know some Set 1 leaders that define their roles, like Sabine is a great example. She does her role in Aggro very well, and designing a more Aggro leader would just power creep Aggro overall. So you can’t just design a better, pure Aggro leader.
What we try to do is look for how can we create new identities in those archetypes. Ahsoka is an aggro leader who comes out at 5, can attack for 5, but she isn’t just burning the base and deploying all-in like Sabine. You want a board presence and play slightly slower game compared to Sabine.
I can’t talk about too many Set 3 leaders yet, but maybe a new leader cares about certain traits or a new leader is bringing more control to a certain type of color that didn’t have it before.
Scott: Like how Sabine was the main Aggro, but introducing Kylo or even Bossk helped bring Aggro to the villain side that wasn’t present in Spark of Rebellion.
Danny: So yeah, maybe there is a new Cunning or Command leader that can now do Aggro which wasn’t present before. Even coming up in Set 3, there are a few leaders that are on the later deploy and more control abilities on the hero side, as they didn’t have that much in Sets 1 and 2.
Scott: So as you design the starters, we see they parallel each other – Shields in Luke vs Pings in Vader, and Upgrades on Mando vs Swarm on Gideon. What were some ideas you have in Set 3 as you designed them?
Danny: Tyler was the big lead on them, but the big point is Ahsoka being on the more aggressive side, and Grievous can slow it down and give sentinels to his droids.
He might lose his Exploit by sacrificing droids, but he can time it well and really slow down the game if needed. Of course, since he is a Separatist leader, you will see him having Exploit in his deck. He is definitely willing to sacrifice his droids.
Scott: What are some core philosophies that you have as you design a set about the game's overall longevity?
Danny: We want each set to have a cool identity and that something new and cool is being brought to the game. Set 2 was Smuggle, Set 3 is Tokens and Coordinate/Exploit.
We want to do that without making the overall game explode in complexity. We don’t want Set 6 people to think it is an entirely different game. We can add in new twists and different styles, but it's still fundamentally the game we all love.
We try to figure out what new mechanics are core but can still bring a new direction. Coming up in Year 2 we have a lot of those new things, and it plays right into the decisions we are trying to make.
Scott: Even with Set 2 you hit the mark! Smuggle is a great addition that added a lot to the game without making it overly complicated
Danny: Smuggle is one of my favorite examples, as it gives you more options. As we tested, we wanted to make sure we tested with the casual playtesters or people in the office to see how they liked it. It helped them with their resource decisions without making it overly complicated to start.
Scott: With Set 3, was there a starter deck you liked playing more between the two (Ahsoka or Grievous) while playtesting?
Danny: I always gravitate towards Grievous in Star Wars, but I love playing Ahsoka. I am generally the aggro player in the office, so I usually give those leaders a lot of time in testing.
John Leo is usually the other end, and he loves playing his villain control. Though with Set 3, I do swap a bit, as there are some hero control decks that I love to play and build new versions of.
Scott: Any decks this weekend at Gen Con that have been interesting to you?
Danny: The Set 2 Han with Vigilance is very interesting to me! I love Han 2 and make new decks with him in every set with every color. I played a lot of Set 2 Han in playtesting, so I love to see him doing well at events!
Scott: Do you think about giving specific archetypes or even specific heroes new things each set?
Danny: We do think about that a lot, and there are a few stages to testing. Early on, you just try to get reps on the new leaders, as there are 18 of them. How they play with new mechanics, old ones, etc.
Once you feel they are good, you look and try to find stuff for old leaders. Like Set 1 Palpatine, we know, loves tokens and tossing them into his opponents. I even had people ask about Leia and Tarkin support, but coming down the pipeline we are thinking about that! Even Cassian in set 2 helped Leia even if she still struggles to break into the top tables.
Scott: Is there a leader you are most excited to see in Set 3?
Danny: There are a couple, and there is a very prominent Clone Wars villain that we get a really cool leader for in Set 3. The two leaders I played most we haven’t seen yet. One is a red hero that plays very differently from the past red heroes. The other is a green villain that plays so well into themes of Set 3, but he gets new toys with each set that comes out after that. I always build new versions of him each time. Both green villain leaders are just brand new different deck-builds compared to Set 1 and Set 2.
Scott: Is there a particular non-leader card you're excited about?
Danny: There are a few, but I can't give to many hints. The card I am known for playing the most is a random common unit in yellow with Exploit. Now I play it in every deck and have a reputation for it.
Then there is a blue villain Legendary that I just love and is a true build around card for your decks. It is very exciting and you will know it when you see it.
Scott: Appreciate you talking with me today and taking the time to chat about Star Wars: Unlimited. And big thanks to all our viewers and fans that help support us to make this content!
JustJack and ScottE
Golden Dice Podcast
YouTube | Spotify | Facebook
